When I purchased a new vehicle in September 2004, I wanted side impact airbags, but they only were available as part of a “Safe and Secure” package that also included OnStar which I did not want. A salesman tried to convince me that I was getting a year of OnStar service “free”, but obviously part of the price of the S&S package paid for the OnStar subscription.
The emergency services of OnStar are appealing to me. But the privacy implications are not. Now that my year of “free” service is over, I have disabled the system by pulling the fuse that powered it.
OnStar will automatically connect with an OnStar advisor if the airbags deploy. There is also an emergency button for manual activation. In addition, OnStar provides services like remote unlocking and stolen vehicle tracking, and can be used as a hands-free cellular phone if you purchase an additional celluar plan. All these services work by means of an integrated GPS system and cellular telephone.
Should the government wish to find or track a vehicle equipped with OnStar, it is very easy for them to do so. They can also activate the OnStar and listen to any conversations occurring in the vehicle, without the driver and passengers’ knowledge. Some people tried to tell me that my concern over privacy was overly paranoid, but it turned out that the FBI actually lost a lawsuit in which it was revealed that they have been subverting the OnStar system for exactly these purposes. However, the basis of the ruling was that the FBI deprived the car owner of the normal emergency use of the OnStar system. This wouldn’t apply if they used the system to track an unsubscribed vehicle, or if they developed a means to use OnStar for tracking without disabling its normal functioning. It seems very likely that they have done this.
If you carry a cell phone around, it can be used to track you, but a normal cell phone does not include a GPS, so the location must be determined by triangulation based on signal strength, which is not very precise. You can turn off a normal cell phone any time you like. The OnStar system is on at any time the vehicle is powered, and there’s no way to shut it off with the vehicle powered short of removing the fuse as I have done.
In my vehicle, the fuse for OnStar is also used to power the rear seat entertainment system, but I don’t have that option so as far as I know only OnStar is affected. The OnStar buttons and indicators definitely are not functional now, but I have not yet confirmed that the system is completely disabled; it is possible though rather unlikely that the GPS and cellular portions of the system may get power from another fuse. To be completely certain, I should find the OnStar unit and verify that no power is reaching it, or use a spectrum analyzer to verify that the cellular portion is inactive.
I’d actually like to take advantage of the cellular and GPS hardware, but on my own terms. Certainly using the installed GPS antenna for an aftermarket GPS navigation system should be easy. But it would be even better if it turns out that the OnStar unit uses standard OEM modules for the GPS and the GSM cell phone, as the latter uses higher power than a conventional handset and also has the handsfree support. Possibly I could put a different SIM card in the unit to use it with my own cell phone account rather than the one OnStar provided.
Another possibility would be to install switches on the dash that allow me to turn the OnStar unit on and off, disable the GPS, and install an indicator that would show whether the cell phone was active; that way the system could not be remotely activated for eavesdropping without the driver’s knowledge.
Yes, we’re all secret agents here. No one else has reason to be concerned with privacy, despite the ever increasing amount of government surveillance. After all, the innocent have nothing to fear!
Eric
Time to trash or hack the on star unit in the car. So what happens when you sell the cr?
Car Parts Guy,
When I sell the car, I’ll put the fuse back in, and the new owner should have no problem activating it again.
Eric
what haapens if a court can order onstar to release info if you are in an accident relative to speed etc or if in a divorce proceeding onstar can prove you were not where you said you were at a specific time etc
Good questions, john.
Normally OnStar wouldn’t have the vehicle location unless they called your vehicle at the particular time in question. It is unknown whether the OnStar unit keeps any history of vehicle location, speed, or other information, or whether it can obtain that information from the “black box” functionality elsewhere in the vehicle.
Police do generally have the ability to extract black box data from your vehicle, but that usually does not include GPS positioning data.
I have not yet determined where the black box data is stored in my 2004 Yukon, nor how to disable that functionality.
Eric
Onstar is a feature I do not need. I would like to only have the phone system. Does anyone know how to set my car up to just use the phone system?
I just want to say
JTHompson said: “Notice that Osama bin Laden has not been captured yet. Some friends tell me its because he and his friends discarded their cell phones right after 9/11.”
I think this is just crap, you just need to watch the “Fahrenheit 9/11″ movie by Micheal Moore. And finally work your brains and try to look at your American life from other points of view. Change your looking angles and finally understand that the government does whatever you they want and the power is not in people. That’s a simple truth about life.
Bunch of paranoid losers on here.
Wow, quite a trip over a year, reading what everyone has to say…… I have a simple question.
Can I hack/interface/splice or in some way use the Onstar audio in my 03 Tahoe to pick-up/ attach to or amplify my cell phone, Spint Katana. I do remember during my first year with On-Star the telephone clarity was excellent and it would make a great “hands free” device for the phone………..
Eric, Your right, the fbi does do that. That Bear guy is as stupid as they get. Just check cnet for the info.
Google fbi onstar and see for yourself.
That is the main reason I won’t ever own a GM
I think this conversation is typical of today’s challanges. None of wants to be spied on (I wouldn’t think) We are mostly Americans and want to believe in American ideals but most of us know something is going on behind closed doors. The technology is there for whoever wants to spend the time and money to get the info. The court cases and lawsuits all help a little but not much. I’m old and hate that this survelence and privacy theft is going on and will avoid what I can and voice loudly what I can’t avoid. I don’t do anything bad anymore but still wish for a little anominity just because I’m a private person.
The crime is that some people are thinking this spying and monitoring are OK What’s next cameras in the bathroom?
Found the fuse to disable the OnStar contol panel on the rear view mirror on a 2008 GMC Sierra 1500 pick up.
Open the drivers-side instrument panel fuse block, exposed on the left edge of the panel when the drivers door is open. Pull fuse #22, a 10A, labeled in the owners manual on page 5-125 as “Driver Information Center (DIC)”. A road test showed the actual DIC functions are not effected nor is any other feature in the truck. Pull the fuse and the OnStar panel goes dead. Of course you can put the fuse back in later to reenable it.
Just because I’m paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not watchinng me. I have recently purchased an 06 GMC Z71 Extended Cab Pickup. Does anyone know where the OnStar unit is located on this vehicle? If I disable the OnStar as suggested above by removing the fuse and antenna from the unit, is the anti-theft portion of the OnStar still functional. Thanks in advance.
I on the other hand, would like to keep the Onstar service, but have an analog Onstar unit in my 2002 silverado(Module location???). Can a digital module from a newer and similar GM vehicle be installed and work in my 02 vehicle???
Pointers to a source for that info would be appreciated.
Thanks
hello i have a 2006 gmc yukon and i think my onstar has a shortage where would the computer
or brain box be located
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/onstar-big-brothers-eye-in-the-sky/
First of all your fuse does NOT disable anything about onstar/phone/emergency services. It is just a relay that pops it you get a surge. Second your onstar gps will still work unless you actually unplug the gps from the 12 volt supply. My wife bought me a Whistler radar detector for my birthday. Out in the middle of nowhere the detector starts going off I mean I’m in the moutains at Pillsbury. I’m a disabled man and my disability benefits are up for review. And all of a sudden people start showing up
no matter where I am or how fast I got there. News flash people in the know can pick up your GPS data just from pulling up next to you with the proper equipment. Then use it for their purposes in this case to track me to see if I’m out digging ditches.
After much back and forth with onstar I called the chevy dealer who sent me a schemeatic. I unplugged what I thought was the onstar and the antenna however I now believe this was just a control box for the onstar. The actual onstar GPS module is buried deep in your dash. If anybody knows how to actually disable the GPS part of onstar please post not just the control box.
Sorry, you’re incorrect. All power to the Onstar unit is routed through a fuse, and removing the fuse disables the Onstar unit. ALL electrical devices in your car get their power via a fused circuit. Otherwise an electrical fault in the device or its wiring could start a fire. In any case, I confirmed this both with the diagrams in the service manual and by inspection of the wiring.
Removing the fuse removes power from the Onstar unit, preventing it from all activity including GPS and cellular phone operation.
Of course, if you remove the wrong fuse, the Onstar won’t be disabled. However, this is readily apparent because the Onstar indicators and buttons will still be functional.
Note that the Onstar often shares a fuse with other devices, so removing the fuse will disable those devices as well. In the model year I own, the same fuse provides would power for the rear seat entertainment system, but my vehicle doesn’t have that option so I don’t care.
Older Onstar systems had two separate modules, one of which contained the GPS. Newer ones are a single module. In either case, the GPS is built into one of the Onstar modules, not something separate.
It is perhaps in theory possible for someone near your vehicle to detect that there is a GPS receiver operating in the vehicle, but it would extremely difficult to remotely monitor the output of that GPS receiver (other than over the cellular network if the Onstar is active). However, there’s absolutely no point in doing that. If someone is that close to your vehicle, they can determine your location from a GPS in their own vehicle.
Sorry you are incorrect. I did that and the gps tracking still worked. Not asking you if it would work. Telling you that it did work after taking the fuse out. Try another ass u me ption.
Sorry. I did take the right fuse out on my 2007 silverado it is fuse 47. It did disable the keypad on the rearview however gps still worked I was still being tracked it gets its power directly from another source. The chevy dealer sent me the way to unplug it via a controll box about 8 inches by 12 inches. I want to unplug it directly. Someone must know where the actual GPS lives. Ya know the little black box itself.
You’re welcome to think that a GPS can work without power if you like, but you’re mistaken.
The GPS is definitely inside the Onstar unit. This has been confirmed by both the schematics and by people that have taken the Onstar apart and hacked into the GPS to use it for other purposes like homebrew navigation systems.
It is true that on many GM vehicles the Onstar unit is behind the dashboard (e.g., behind the passenger side airbag).
Thank you.
can you disable the onstar and still keep the navigation on onstar without having onstar listening in
I saw an article a while back stating where the police used On Star to put a car
in neutral and lock the doors thus imprisoning the theif untill the police could
arrive to pick him up.
Can onStar do this?
I hate the thought of somebody being able to hack into the system and do that to
me with my own car.
According to engadget, this is a new feature for the 2009 model year:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/09/onstar-stolen-vehicle-slowdown-hits-the-brakes-on-jacked-cars/
http://www.switched.com/2007/10/09/gm-lets-police-kill-engines-of-stolen-cars/
They say that customers can opt out. However, the opt out is probably just a bit stored in their central database, and if someone hacks the system and establishes a wireless connection directly to your OnStar unit, they can probably activate it remotely regardless of the opt out.
It would seem a good Bussiness could be made out of fixing cars with OnStar on them ( disableing the offensive controls and moniters)
Here’s an idea-don’t do anything illegal and you won’t have anything to worry about. I mean the government can listen to me talk about my childrens stinky diapers or what I am ordering for lunch if they want to. You sound very paranoid. People make such a big deal thinking that the government is listening to them when in fact you are not that important in this world to make the FBI listen in on your conversations unless you have done something to make them think otherwise. Or here’s an idea when your talking about murdering your wife do it inside a restaurant and not your car!!! LOL
People always bring up the old “the innocent have nothing to fear” argument, but it is complete bullshit. The government has been caught spying on US citizens without warrants far too many times to count. If they had any legitimate government interest, they would be able to get warrants, so it is clear that there is a lot of domestic spying on people for no good reason.
That’s the whole point of the telecom immunity provisions of the new FISA bill. Congress is not only saying that it is OK that the phone companies broke the law, but also that the at any time in the future, the President can give them a “get out of jail free” card. It hardly seems like there is any reason to keep laws against domestic spying on the books any longer, since Congress has completely defanged them.
How can i disable onstar in my 2007 gmc yukon?!
If I just don’t want OnStar – I shouldn’t have to buy it, I shouldn’t have to look at the blue button… But there may be other reasons to want to buy the vehicle.
I think GM is wrong for not offering an “OnStar Delete” option. I understand that they want to hook in to another revenue stream, and that OnStar can help minimize users being called in for “recall checks” that they might not actually need… there is good in OnStar, I just don’t want it.
If I’m lying in a ditch, bleeding out… sorry, its my time to die. Deal with it – my choice, not yours. I choose not to want the service, I don’t have to take the service, I do not agree to the terms of service…
I’m only sorry that my vehicle purchasing options are limited – I would love to buy a car without OnStar, just in principle.
The rest of the argument is pointless – how dare you OnStar fans insinuate that someone who for watever reason doesn’t want the darned thing should have to put up with it… I love the bit about “I work for OnStar and therefore I know everything…” I don’t believe they give you all their secrets…
My turck has onstar and I no longer use it, so just on plug it and go? I will no longer buy a chevy again just do to the onstar tracking.
Obviously, the Gov’t in general (it’s very nature our Founding Fathers Warned of) does
consistantly and at every level care about watching your every move and removing your
every right in every case. As history has inverably shown and why we have the Constitution
and BOR in spite of the U.N.-Patriot ACT, and Mass-Judicial, FBI, CIA, NSA and Homeland Security
Against Freedom Dept. A history of treason and murder (USS Liberty, 911, WACO, Medigio, IRAN-
Contra, Garden Plot, Rex 84, Uniform Codes Every MASO Albert Pike’s 140 yr old planned 3 World
Wars, Fed Reserve IRS Serial-Killing Extortionist, U.N.-Patriot Act, NAU, CFR, TLC etc…etc
etc…daily). Yeah Yeah Yeah. You don’t even know what Tech they actually buid into LSI
Chips because even than knowledge is covered under the public privite communism and
intellectual property rights cum Patriot Act And ‘We Coruptor-rate with the Gov’t in order to
help fight the War OF Terror against wee-folk freedom and Bilderbirg inbreds consolidation
program under the All-Seeing Eye for the straight Goy Guy.
Yearly Laws OF Terror passed to destroy our rights are imperical proof of these facts that
football protocol fans can’t seem to grasp, cowardness of facing the true nature of reality
and ALL Governments that are ALWAYS eventually get infested by human virus that prey on man.
They have been working for years to mandate a force of this type of tech in our vehicals upon
us by law once we get aclimated to it. ‘You already pay for it or have the equipment – so
whats the problem. Why shouldn’t a cop be able to call OFF-STAR OF D and order your car shut
off and tell you to pull over, while they let illegals immigrants run our streets and check
point us while waving them on. I pay for the vehical and I don’t believe the Gov’ts always
right, sometimes they are the most viel, filthy traitors on the planet. If I ever disagree
with their violation of my rights, the last thing I want them to be able to do with is disable
my abilty to use the high velocity ramming unit I paid for! Peace-warm fuzzy love and give a
tree a hug and always be crazier than the Neo-Con Gov’t lover that wants to call you paranoid.
Got to give an Amen to that one , even if a bit extreem.
From reading these blogs, It is obvious that everyone in this community is overly paranoid and does not pay attention to benefits of topic before you. Did you know tha there are key word that if spoken into your phone (At Home,cell,etc) throw a red flag and are reviewed by government officials for verification. It’s called Homeland Security. Your day to day life is monitored. If you are a felon or plan to comit a crime (Felony) Goverment and and other agencies will track you and “Listen in if needed” Would’t prefer a crimal to taken down by a system as simple as OnStar??? For you kids protection………Think before you speak
ok so I don’t care if the gov’t listens to my conversations. As a matter of fact I have been trying to reach any part of the gov’t for a little over a year now,but that is beside the point. (if any one wants to know why read my blog.Hollyb27.blogspot.com)anyway. This is what I’m trying to figure out I am borrowing my cousin’s gmc g71 and it has onstar I need to know how to disable it bc the repo man says he can cut the vehicle off by using the onstar. So if this info is true how can u disable the onstar until my cousin can catch up on his payments.
P.S. I have been paying my cousin’s truck note. He just hasn’t been paying it to the lender.
THANKS HOLLYthe HOUSEWIFE.
like I said if anyone can help me please E-mail me @ jaykend54@yahoo.com
I have a 2007 Sierra Denali pick-up that I am falling behind in payments on due to the economy and I am really worried they will repo soon. I have onstar as well as navigation in my truck:
1. Can they track me through both onstar and Nav?
2. How do I disconnect it so the repo man won’t find me?
I have herd so much back and forth that I don’t know what to do. If anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate the input.
I pulled fuse 47 which is the onstar rear seat entertainment fuse as well as fuse 43 the audio fuse. I also disconnected the wire harness that is connected to the rear view mirror. there is no power going to the onstar on my rear view mirror.
I would like to use my nav and radio if possible. Please advise.
my email is :
ranchorelaxo619@yahoo.com
BTW-the rear view mirror is where the onstar is located and that is where I disconnected the wire. Now It doesn’t display North, South, East or West as well as temp outside.
I need feed back from anyone that knows wher the Onstar system/box is on the 2003 H2 hummer…I want to get ride of it. and I would like to know if the car can be shut down by Onstar
The OnStar radio is located either in the vehicle trunk and/or on the case of some SUV types, in one of the rear access panels just inside the rear hatch/door of the vehicle. It should be easy to spot as it will have in addition to a power control cable, an antenna cable (round/coaxial cable).
For the truly paranoid, the unit can be access even if you do not have service. ALL cellular phones can be activated and monitored covertly as long as they 1.) have power connected and 2.) have some form of antenna that can obtain a signal from the system. You will not necessarily get any indication that the phone is active.
This is nothing new, the ability to activate a cell phone through the network has been there since the very first phones. Interestingly enough, by a federal mandate (I have no idea why, only that the capability has always been there).
What has changed is that most new cell phones have a built in GPS receiver. You may not even know it is there and your carrier may or may not offer any services based on it. Nevertheless, this too can be activated without your knowledge and used to locate your phone.
Additionally, even without GPS, there are technologies which can triangulate your phone based on the towers it can talk to. This location resolution is enhanced with digital phones even more so than with analog.
So if you are truly paranoid, remove your battery from your hand held phone when not using it. If you have OnStar or some other mobile phone, wire it in so that you can cut the power to the primary radio “brick”, when you are not using it. If the phone does not have power, it cannot talk to anybody, period.
Having said all that, what I do like to tell most of my friends and customers who are worried about “big brother”, if you really think and/or believe the feds are looking at you specifically, then you probably have much bigger problems.
Rob
I have a 2003 Chevy Silverado. I accidently hit the onstar button on the steering wheel and set off the onstar. I can not shut it off. It keeps saying that it is an emergency and it will connect me to onstar. Upon calling the toll free onstar number, I was told that I have to take the truck in to the dealship. Where is the onstar unit in my truck and can I just disconnect it without creating other problems? I tried disconnecting the battery and then reconnected it, but onstar will not shut off.
Let me start by saying that I am by nature a libertarian. However I am also a realist.
With 300 million americans the chances are far greater that you will need the services Onstar provides than the chance that you might have caused the government to want to snoop into your car.
I have a friend who was so concerned about the government tuning in or tracking him that he disabled the Onstar in his Caddy. Normally he was the only driver, but he let his daughter take the car on a special occasion and on the way home late that night a drunk swerved into her lane on a curve and forced her off the road, down a bank, and into a ditch that has a stream running in it. Her purse with her cell phone in it slid into the passenger footwell that was filled with water and crushed by the accident. She was trapped in the car, unable to use the cell phone even if she could have got to it, and no one knew she was there. It was 6 days before they found her and she was near death. She lived but has medical issues that will hamper her for the rest of her life because of the time she spent trapped in that car not getting the medical treatment she needed.
Had her father not been so paranoid the system would have had her located and with medical assistance within minutes and would have had a full recovery within weeks.
I can cite endless stories of people who would have been saved from all sorts of hardships if they had Onstar, or were because they did, but the stories of abuses of the system are so few and far between that while we should make every effort to prevent them we shouldn’t dimiss the whole system because of them.
If you are concerned about your Onstar than you need to drive a pre 1981 car, ditch your Cell phone, IPod, anything electronic (especially if if has bluetooth or wifi), and move to North Dakota to get away from video cameras, and every other form or electronic monitoring in use today.
As much as I don’t want the government in my life I value the well being of my family more and will not own a car without OnStar in it because I worry more about their safety than I do the government snooping into my business.
Trust me, if you got yourself on their radar your Onstar is the least of your problems.
It’s a choice. If I choose to disable OnStar in my vehicle, I’m not any less safe in an accident than if I simply chose not to pay for the OnStar service subscription. I can estimate the probability that I’ll get in an accident, and I know what the OnStar service costs, so I can decide whether the benefit is worth the cost.
There is at least one documented case where the FBI was using OnStar to listen to unsuspecting drivers, so this isn’t some conspiracy theory. If you are more concerned about OnStar working in an accident than you are about surveillance, by all means keep your OnStar active.
Just because I don’t want OnStar doesn’t mean I need a pre-1981 car. My 2004 car works perfectly well without OnStar.
Yes, cell phones can be used to track your location. Some cell phones can be remotely activated for audio surveillance, but they can’t be used for that continuously, as you would notice that your battery goes dead after only a couple of hours. If you don’t want your location to be tracked, turn your phone off.
Surveillance cameras are more problematic. Dealing with that is far beyond the scope of this blog posting.
In general, to everyone that thinks I’m overly paranoid, my response is that you’re obviously free to keep your OnStar active. If you don’t think the government would ever spy on you, then there’s no reason to disable it, and I’m not trying to encourage you to do so.
In my own case, having the OnStar disabled has become a moot point, since the OnStar unit in my car only worked on the analog AMPS cellular service, which no longer exists in the United States. Now there’s actually a practical reason to have the unit disabled other than concern over privacy: there’s no point to having it draw battery power when it cannot provide any possible benefit to me. GM sent me a letter telling me that I could take my car to a dealership to have the OnStar disabled, but I’ve already dealt with it myself.
If I get another car with OnStar, I’ll disable it. When I renew my passport in a few years, I’ll start keeping it in a sealed conductive bag (Faraday cage) to prevent it from being surreptitiously read from a distance. Some people think that’s paranoid, and others think it’s privacy. Take your pick.
Paul Warren—I just disabled my OnStar over the weekend. If your 2003 is anything like my 2006, you just need to open the glove compartment and press the catch over, allowing the compartment to swing fully open. Look up inside the dash for a computer (silver and black box) with a coaxial cable hookup and a few wiring harness hookups. Disconnect all. Verify no OnStar by pressing buttons on rearview/steering wheel.
Enjoy your freedom,
OnStar is a good example of why GM is on the verge of extinction. For years they have rammed their automotive ideology down our throats and told us “it’s good for you”. What moron(s) at GM would overlook the fact that some people would find this GPS and eavesdropping technology offensive enough to buy another make of vehicle. What moron(s) at GM would object to a delete option when producing vehicles. What morons at GM overlooked the idea that this system should be a dealer installed option that would make everyone happy. (Including their dealers) This OnStar program is about safety and security but it must also be about satisfying the customer, all customers, with a flexible option package. This new CEO better wake-up to the fact that there are some incredibly stupid management personnel still on the payroll that have spearheaded GM’s near death demise and get rid of them immediately. I would suggest he start with the a-holes that put this OnStar policy in place. Now that we all own a large piece of GM we must demand better management, smart policies and a commitment to customer satisfaction.
you think by now someone would make an easy way to hack newer phones, an app – one for all kinda thing. just my thoughts, if you get a min take a look at my site, hopefully you’ll like
For those people who think that it is ‘paranoid’ to worry about privacy: that individual citizens are just ‘too little’ for the government to want to monitor….
Here is a sobering fact: on the ‘other side of the pond’, the UK is leading the charge to get the EU government to pass a law that ALL new vehicles sold in the EU MUST contain a GPS unit which would feed ALL of its location data into government databases, where it would be retained for several years “just in case it becomes needed”…
Of course, the primary reason given for ‘needing’ to collect this data is to ‘manage traffic’ better… Their ‘biggest concern’? Perhaps they should ‘lead into’ it with ‘less invasive’ technology first, so ‘adverse potential public reaction could be better managed’. Just one of the many articles on this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/31/surveillance-transport-communication-box
And it is not just cars… In the UK, the ISPs are required – by law – to keep a record of every keystroke, every click, that each and every one of their subscribers makes. They have to keep this info for years – and they have to make it available to the government ‘upon request’. The UK government is currently building huge buildings and hiring tons of people to manage this mammoth task!
This is not ‘paranoia’ – but documented fact that many privacy experts have been screaming about for years! But, the US is very much focused on domestic issues only…so little of this info has penetrated the ‘common knowledge’ on THIS side of the pond.
If you think that the US government is not salivating when it sees the power the Europeans are wielding over their populace, think again. And, look forward to a future where you have ‘no expectation of privacy’ – for your own protection, of course!
And if you think the only danger comes from ‘the government’ – remember that when the iPhone came out, boasting the best, anti-hacker security ever, it took a high-school kid a day-and-a-half to hack it…
If you have ever had a stalker (and I have), you learn to worry about little things like this.
Privacy is more important than most people imagine. And, retaining control over when one CHOOSES to relinquish privacy and when one does not ought not be given up lightly, no matter what the pretext.
Normalizing the attitude that 3rd parties should have access to all your movements at their discretion does not only affect your own privacy, it goes a long way towards eroding the privacy rights of all of us!
For those of you that think Eric is paranoid, he’s just practical – based on a litany of past history.
He’s also a skilled reverse (and forward) engineer.
Who might be interested in individual’s behaviors… we upstanding people are all boring, right?
I’m a gun rights activist in California who leads an otherwise boring but nice life as a firmware engineer. I may well have crossed the Calif DOJ Firearms Division back in 2006, when their agents were jumping on web forums, etc. trying to scare folks into believing their version of the law (instead of what was really on the books). 300,000 black rifles in California later, we did something right. But I’m betting there were Nth parties on some of my phone calls back in summer of 2006.
You shouldn’t have to pay for your own wiretap. I’d much rather have my head splatted on my windshield and not get help, than take assistance from the Helpful Hand of RatStar.
I do note that the OnStar folks posting here appear to not really be true engineering/technical (i.e, having the ability to read schematics/write firmware etc.) and they have a general ‘systems’ or ‘program management’ view – but not necessarily a detail view of what’s in the firmware.
In a similar vein, it appears many cellphones have a feature where the phone doesn’t really get turned off – the off button just blanks the display. This mode can be triggered by a system operator sending configuration parameters to the phone – doesn’t require a new firmware download, just a flip of a couple of bits.
If OnStar wants to let skilled folk gain confidence in their product, they can open up the source code to their devices’ firmware to public inspection.
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
I found this discussion after searching for “On Star vehicle recoveries” I was looking for anecdotal information about stolen vehicles actually being recovered due to having On Star. But since this has veered off course I’ll jump in.
My major privacy concern with On Star and any other memory based vehicle data storing system is post accident or even no accident data transfer to law enforcement and insurance companies.
As of now (Nov 2009) most vehicles sold will store vehicle data (speed, wheel slippage, brake line pressure, steering wheel angle, accelerometer data from crash impact detectors etc.) for a much longer period of time than previously known. When first installed in cars back in the 90′s they could only record 30 seconds of data and were triggered by airbag deployment. Now they can store 30 minutes or even longer and can not be erased of turned off by the vehicle owner. All this data can be used to support a guilty verdict in an accident lawsuit, or even a criminal case against the driver. I don’t know about you but I don’t want my car to “Tattle” on me if I was driving in an entertaining manner. And who knows, it may just be a generation away from your car sending data to a law enforcement computer that would automatically bill your credit card for speeding, parking at an out of money meter, or perhaps driving in a “non green manner”
The future will be here sooner than you think.
Hi humphrey!
I recently switched insurance companies, and the new company’s terms that I was asked to agree to specifically included a paragraph on their right to extract data from the car to investigate losses. I don’t remember seeing that in my last policy with a different insurance company, but they probably all do this now. I’ve gone through the three-volume service manual for my car, and while it gives complete wiring diagrams, it is not apparent where the data recorder is. Possibly in the Body Control Module, but I’m not sure. I wish I had time to spend reverse-engineering it.
Eric
Okay, so its pretty obvious that there are people on this forum who’s sole purpose is to convince others that this technology “On Star” is innocent and more the likely more the just this On Star employee works for On Star or the agencies monitoring people. Any person with a brain will realize, based on not only the fact that the FBI was caught miss-using this system, and also based on the fact that the more time that goes by the less rights we seem to have to our privacy and our minds….but enough of that…..i want to know where the camera is….i had a lady at work sent a “advertisement” in the mail from On Star, and the pic that was next to the words “Are you ready for winter” was a picture of her sweeping the snow off her car, it was her coat, her backyard in the background and the bottom of her face, you can’t see all her face because she is scraping snow off the window. But there is No arguing its not her. It is her. That is enough for me to ask how the hell do i remove this camera and recording device from my car? I did not want nor ask for that when buying it. And i Bloody well should have the right to my own privacy if anything. I”m not a sheep or a cattle or a criminal for that matter, and the fact that i can’t even jump into my own car without the worry of someone snapping a pic of me? no thank you. anyone know where the camera’s are? i heard that they are mounted on the sides somewhere of the rear view mirror? not sure….but i’m gonna start looking….. take a pic of that! i’m pretty sure i have the right to remove On Star if i so choose…..